Add functionality to pamac to support the removal of db.lck

I have seen too many posts related to the lock-file of the pacman infrastructure,

Even I, I have spent a few minutes looking for this file to remove it in my early manjaro days.

So I suggest adding a feature, which is adding a Wipe action, thru a command line argument and/or a button in the gui, I have seen it in many other applications/software and it should make all of us gain an extra peace of mind:
(especially if we really want to enjoy the simplicity :wink: )

Think of a few situations:

  1. Newbie a) sees the error, forum-search/google: finds a solution ...
    time wasted for her/him .
    Newbie b) posts in the forum etc ...
    time wasted by her/him and us .
  2. Techie : finds a solution thru tracing .
    time wasted .

Here we have a negative experience, a software stopped from working because of not handling a Situation and this Situation is far from being rare or exceptional,
It is negative too, because the user and the average-user and the newbie had to use the command line, and use rm under root, that is always dangerous .

Voila voila, you all have a great day .

2 Likes

Changed the title for clarity and moved the post to #manjaro-development:feature-request

The main issue i have with adding such feature is that newbies are likely to just use it instead of searching why there is a lock in the first place. I mean, this lock is (temporarily) put for a reason...

2 Likes

I do not agree with you,

That is like saying, I cant install an eject-able seat in the jet , because the pilot may

eject it self in the wrong time :slight_smile:

I know it is a funny example, but hey it is a serious matter ! :slight_smile:

A more accurate analogy would be, in order to eject that seat, i'd want you to use the existing handle you must forcibly pull, rather than put a common button you may push by mistake.

Speaking of which ... :smirk:

Thank you for the reference !

But you see,

In France, we have a saying: "The Law does not protect imbeciles" .
even Judges use this expression when a "victim" complains about being scammed, in a ridiculous way .

My point is, It is the fault of the user .

And, ... I'm OK to super-glue a handle on your monitor :slight_smile:

Cheers

Actually, from my point of view, by adding that feature, you'd allow such "imbecile victims"...

From the related issues i spotted lately, that lock not being released was less about a user's mishandling, and more about an issue during the update.
So personally, i'd rather fix the original problem, than allowing for a quick way to release the security triggered every time that problem happens...

1 Like

There should be no manual button/switch but pamac could detect its own abnormal ending (or rather a lack of normal ending) and then offer to remove the lock on next program start.

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This suggestion ^^^ makes a little more sense to me.

Having the option (GUI button) to wipe the lock would seem of little value as the user would still need to search to find what it might be needed for.

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Not really,

remember pamac and pacman are just one of the many programs that use libalpm,

alpm is the infrastructure, pamac is just one of other interfaces .

I am not inventing anything especially not the wheel, the feature does exist elsewhere for many other infrastructures .

Yes

So you will have to neutralize the adversary's air support so your pilot doesn't have to eject because he lacks experience .

I mean, in that case, that pilot doesn't have a reason to exist hence not to use a jet in the first place .

I really hope you understand my funny example .

Your example doesn't make sense so...

I've not forgotten and its precisely the reason why pamac should only try to "clean up its own mess" if it failed execute properly:

  1. this will be "good enough" for all the Manjaro users using pamac (especially the less tech savvy ones)
  2. users of other package managers:
    1. are probably knowledgable enough to remove such a lock file by themselves anyway if they see the need to do so
    2. probably won't use (or think of using) pamac to remedy a problem that apparently was created without using pamac
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Well, your misunderstanding of my post is not my fault,

The original title was some thing like "pamac/pacman etc ..."

I am not enough of an idiot going thru this and "ask" "you" to add a button in pamac-gtk for example,

and I am enough aware that I know that there is also pamac-qt , pamac-manager, pamac pacman etc

For example, you think billgates would have been a billionaire today if he had the same way of thinking as you ? , instead of telling win users the open a dos box and type this commands, he sends hotfix to double click on and the thing just works

The goal in the real world is not to fix the problem, it is to have no problems or ... make them easier to fix it and that once and for all .

Sorry but I cannot be clearer .

Well, you cannot really fix the original issue just like that, it is way too easy to say then to do .

for example: will go back in time and stop a user from closing by accident the terminal they launched pacman in ? you cant .

that window closed because of a crash ... a very well recurrent problem many times reported in this actual forum . you cant either .

power outages etc etc ...

And if your real concern is about the less savvy users, well that too you can do nothing about it,
and you cannot ask the whole planet to be a geek or at least a computer literate, you cannot ask all manjaro users to be geeks especially after having put "Enjoy the simplicity" as a slogan in the index.html of www.manjaro.org

you could maybe ... which is a very widely used practice: put a nice big warning with a mini explanation text , to be added in the manual page , an extra line of the "programname -h" output, or a nice little warning box in the gui with the said warning .

I repeat, all this things I am saying are just what I have seen been done in many many other software suites, and having experienced this here too, just showed me how much it is piratical and simple .

practical and simple, the whole idea behind any technological product that interact with a User .

remember also, that a User has to be treated as a customer actually, you cannot look down on a user because he got his OS for free, or not paying you for having answers from you,

The best customer to have oops I mean to have loyal users, try not to make them:

Waste time looking for answers, which time lost instead of Working, for example .

And most of all run rm as root in a terminal, that is a no go for any serious IT service provider .

You know their is a reason Windows tells you to not shutdown and reboot when its configuring updates.
Guess what fools still do it and screw up windows

Their is a similar reason for having a data base lock to stop users trying to use 2 applications to install software updates and screw up their system.

Their are also some fools that think they know better and get annoyed that the distro stops them from self destruction are you really that foolish, or is it you really do not know the difference, between safe practices and unsafe practices.
also WTF has a ejector seat got to do with a package manager

1 Like

Oh man you are late ! and it is too early to be drunk for me ! :stuck_out_tongue:
hence you have not understood the example or the fact that it is an example,

To make the story short:

One just ameliorate his (stolen) software (ms/billgates) and becomes rich and famous and leaves behind him a company with more than a thousand billion $ capital .

One makes the User waste time to end-up in forums to "hear" :

"Oh you are an idiot: please type in this commands as root"
(idiot because he closed a window by accident , for example)
which makes him able to do an even bigger mistake by typing an rm command under root .
To end-up here again and "hear" another story about how not to be a total idiot .

This second one, will never be a billionaire if you see what I mean .

Having issues with a software process shouldn't be a regular event : a software shouldn't bug or crash regularly, a user shouldn't repeat the same mistake over and over again, an external event -- such as a power outage -- should be exceptional.
Getting used to an issue and constantly using a workaround -- whether bothersome or simplified -- is not a solution. If someone does need your suggestion on a regular basis, i think he has other problems to solve first...

As far as Windows goes, we likely didn't have the same experience with its "resolutions" : it has been a very, very long time since the last time it may have solved anything for me...

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Did you not know Linux is free as free in Beer quoting Bill Gates is not going to get you anywhere really
Linux is not Linux never has been never will be.
And believe me windows messes up quite often, When it does you can't solve anything without using CDM or power-shell unless you are the point and click person then you pay through the nose to get it fixed by somebody like me.

One done things for greed and nothing more. His money did not make him happy he can't even take it with him.
Linux on the other hand gave everything back to to people and shared his knowledge.
so much so that MS now uses the Linux for its own servers as does every other corparation even NASA uses Linux

1 Like

"Having issues with a software process shouldn't be a regular event : a software shouldn't bug or crash regularly," yes we agree on that, products should fulfill their duties as well as a worker with his responsibilities, but that is in utopia land , not down on earth .

Things breakdown, hence mechanics have shops, software crashes, hence this forum exists .

and it is not a spectacular scenery to see a bunch of customers at their dealership or folks wandering in this forum .

"Getting used to an issue and constantly using a workaround -- whether bothersome or simplified -- is not a solution." that is my point too, responding to a topic to tell a user for an Nth time to type commands in the terminal is just sick . make the soft evolve with more features and documentation .

"If someone does need your suggestion on a regular basis, i think he has other problems to solve first..."
here you are wrong, she/he wont need my advice on a regular basis actually not even once, if the software evolves and contains a proper HelpAndInformation "help"-page . yes man pages exists since the 70' and are updated until today.

Hmm, for windows, I have never said or taught it is better, I just see that they succeed ,
For the record, to go up in life don't compare to good people, compare to the people that win,
then if you are a good guy or a bad guy , that is between you and you .

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