everything should be included.
snap flatpak appimage aur repo packages.
user has choice to use what he wants and remove what he does not want.
and removal should be easy. it should not break installation.
what is a bloat - bloat is something unwanted and not able to remove.
if its removable then its not a bloat its a extra feature.
I think Manjaro should aim to empower the user to do what they want with minimal effort. Some people want or need snaps despite it not being very suitable for Manjaro. If snapd runs at under 5Mb (and does not compromise privacy if you don't use it), then it is okay for me. I haven't tested it that much yet, so I haven't fully formed my opinion. But I support their addition with some reservations.
I'd uninstall snapd, and would need to look elsewhere if snaps/flatpak took over any system parts. The canonical/manjaro data sharing is very concerning also. I avoid anything that I understand has a significant amount of tracking eg steam, and deliberately avoid anything ubuntu/linked, also.
Very happy user of AUR, repo and appimages, and appreciate those a lot. Cannot understand why snaps would be needed when the latest versions of packages are already available, and introducing snaps would be so much more work for everyone. From reading around, snaps look to introduce bloat, increased support necessity, complexity, unnecessary insecurities, and often don't work.
It already does; vis-a-vis the user can easily add flatpak, snapd, appimage, fwupd, yada, yada mechanisms. And all the graphical stuff necessary to install and remove their um, 'packages.' A surfeit abounds.
The ability is already there. It only lacks user-knowledge and input, easily Googled or forum-searched.
We hold hands way too much here, sometimes. Just sometimes.
As Manjaro only provides the foundation any complaints on app functionality or lack thereof is the developer(s) of said app. This has always been so.
For the users concerned of the default enabled services - they can be disabled using
sudo systemctl disable apparmor snapd.apparmor snapd
Before doing so I would recommed knowing exactly what you are doing.
Not sure about that, but are you saying that anything to do with snaps on Manjaro would be 3rd party ie Canonical-run?
Canonical - in that regard - is the same. Canonical provides the underlying mechanisms to run snap packaged applications.
The snap application framework can be vetted in source code format if you like
The responsibility of these snap'ed applications is still the developer(s) responsibility.
At the moment - Manjaro does not distribute any applications packaged as snaps.
What Manjaro do provide is a system preconfigured to use snap packaged applications without the user needing to go into details on which services to enable and what profiles to create, maintain - etc.
This is no different than providing the Calamares graphical installer to deliver a preconfigured system to the end user.
Manjaro slogan is still Enjoy the simplicity or you could say ease of use
Sometimes this is the problem as not all software can keep up. As I understand it, snaps/flatpaks could keep (old(er)) software "running". Not quite sure if this is a good thing, though.
Not interested in the ease of use aspect of using snaps, in the sense of not wanting to use anything with tracking/Canonical association, and preferring repo/AUR/appimages, but I see you're saying that Canonical similarly 'host' apps. They are the creators of snaps/snap store, so more 'skin in the game'/involved/data concerns? It's being said in this thread that Canonical are very involved, data sharing etc.
Any questions about snaps would be redirected to the Canonical store/devs, and never answered here, yes? I can see many questions about snap applications here.
When you are using a rolling release distribution there will always be an issue with applications which produces errors when system libraries are not the expected versions.
This is one of the reasons fixed release distributions like Ubuntu LTS and their origin Debian is often favored over rolling release. Their stability is predictable.
This is what snap packaged applications deliver. Predictability.
As the framework - the foundation - is identical for all snap'ed apps the developers can predict how their application will work because it runs in a confined space with the developer's chosen dependencies as specific versions.
The snap package itself and the content is only changed when the developers deems it stable for release and the app is therefore no longer depending on system libraries at specific versions and thus a predictable stability.
Please do inform yourself instead of spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
You can compare snap to any other service on your system - e.g. bluetooth.
If you don't have or use bluetooth - you don't install/enable support for it. Likewise is snap - you don't install/enable support for it but as with bluetooth you are happy it is installed/enabled per default because you are using a laptop and bluetooth speakers and you are happy Manjaro supply bluetooth on a default installation. Snap - same story.
Every publisher of a software is interested in metrics on how many users they have and how they serve them in the best possible way.
But as I said earlier - you are not required to use it - it is an option.
One more time - relevant links
And if you do not like it - if installing from the new ISOs - then disable it - no harm done.
sudo systemctl disable apparmor snapd.apparmor snapd
If you build your own ISO you can edit the profile and remove what you do not like.
In my opinion - yes.
That may be - let's see how it goes - it may just be a storm in a glass of water.
If it is the application which do not work as expected - then it is a developer problem - it is not even a Canonical problem - unless it is a Canonical app.
If it is a core problem - the underlying service - then it is an issue which can be raised in the forum.
Will be this snapcraft storage the most popular way to install software in linux (like google play market) soonish?
If yes - I'm against
No, not spreading anything; just asking a couple of questions, and expressing concerns that have come through reading the thread.
OK - great
Let me emphasize: There is nothing to be concerned about.
While default snap support probably is here to stay - like other services like bluetooth or samba - you are still in charge of your system and that will never go away. So if you don't use snap - you are free to disable the support for snap.
TL;DR is a perfect abbreviation for expressing some users' attitude towards this thread.
To cut long story short, snapd support is:
- Some systemd services enabled OOB
- Several kernel patches to support snaps confinement (kinda isolation).
That's all. No pre-installed snaps, no tracking on users, no mutating to Mubuntu edition, no Shuttleworth eating your cookies. Calm down, people
That's sound like my credit manager in bank speaking. Heh.
We know it will be the first step, then Firefox snap, Office snap, etc.
My concerns are Canonical being praised and the data-sharing, and if it is 100% reliable that snaps will never substitute parts of the system. That needs maintainers' confirmation. Others on the thread also have clear issues with snaps, so please take that up with them also.
Oh nice. Apparently you are one of those who don't read. As someone has noted already, snaps support was already here, but not fully functional. Those apps have been available in Manjaro via snap for like years, okay.
Does this sound like someone knows what he's saying now?
Sorry I am always forgetting to say sorry I didn't mean to be rude I am Russian you know, we usually speak without extra layers of words...