Dropping apps from repo as they are no longer actively deved.

What proper alternatives are there to PACLI and YAOURT? Sometimes I wonder if the reason apps are no longer actively developed is cause they are stable and feature rich. Often their replacements are buggy, featureless and cumbersome to use compared. eg "pacui". So if pacli is dead and removed from the repos, what is it's replacement?

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yay or trizen, i've been using yay for two month already, no issues

!No! pacli is not dead and is a manjaro development. since 2 years pacli is dead and replaced by pacui

... do you mean you didnt look at the forums or wiki or packages at all before opening this thread?

For example .. the wiki doesnt even mention yaourt .. it does mention yay.

pacli doesnt exist at all ... it was renamed (years ago) to pacui.

Even if there was no documentation on these things .. it should be pretty obvious that, you know, something doesnt exist in the repos. That would probably give you a pretty good indication as to its validity and/or whether you should seek alternatives.

Simply because nobody wants to develop or maintain it anymore, including but not limited to the original author.

The proper alternative is supposed to be PacUI

According to the README

This fork of an older version of pacli called PacUI follows the KISS principle: The whole script is contained within one file, which consists of easy to read bash code with many helpful comments. PacUI offers many more features over pacli in order to enhance comfort and speed of CLI based package management.

As said above, trizen or yay.

Pamac is a different beast with its own syntax (closer to APT), but it can do the job too.

Not necessarily. Sometime, they are just dead. It isn't necessarily obvious and can require a confirmation from the author, but there is moment when tools are just not maintained anymore.

For Yaourt, it has been pretty much confirmed to be dead, or at least in extreme lethargy.

Pacli has been removed essentially because of its hard dependency on yaourt, and it has never made the switch to another AUR helper.

Now here's my opinion on why software may get dropped if it is unmaintained by upstream.

On a constantly changing environment, it is important that software stays in active development and maintained well, because breaking changes in dependencies may happen essentially at any moment. Often, when there is breaking changes in dependencies, the programs that needs that dependency has to be adapted to those changes in order to work properly again. If the program is not maintained actively to adapt to breaking changes, it means that the program won't be usable anymore for a long period of time, if the issue is even fixed one day.

See for example MComix: because of breaking changes in python2-pillow 6.0.0, the program does not launch anymore. Luckily, there is still some sort of development, and there have been a commit to fix this particular issue, but the last version from upstream has been published in 2016, so if the maintainer of MComix on Arch wants to fix the issue to make MComix run alongside pillow 6.0.0, he will have to backport the commit in the source code of the old release.

Imagine now that the program is not actively maintained anymore, you have no guarantee that issues will be handled by the dev(s) of the program in a reasonable delay for a fast-pace, ever changing, rolling-release distro, if it ever gets fixed. In that case, you have two choices so far: either the package maintainer try to patches the source code over and over again by himself, which require time and may require also some programming knowledge and a deep understanding on how the program he maintains works to make a clean, proper job; or he simply drops it. The second option is the easiest, less time consuming and the most sustainable option in long term.

This is not true even for "productivity" apps like Microsoft Excel. It is applicable only for simple userspace apps like markdown editors or, I don't know, alarm-clock-etc crap. System tools and utilities evolve by their nature, if development stops, they become outdated pretty soon.

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Why did not anyone mention pamac? Not feature-rich as others but usable and is there by default.

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Aww. :no_mouth:

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Thanks for all the replies

If pacli was renamed YEARS ago. Then why was I able to install it from the repos only a few months ago? I was aware they were phasing it out but pacui is a farcry from what pacli was / is. A simple example just to update my system with a pc that still has pacli on it and I installed pacui. pacui kept asking about pacnew files after 11 confirmations I just Ctrl+C it, pacli just worked. Why on earth would it want to write a new /etc/fstab and other important confs with pacui...then I try and install a simple app from AUR (mpsyt I think) and it had endless errors about dependencies. I installed through pacli - no issues. not once and it uses yaourt in the background.

I briefly played with yay and trizen and can't say I had any hassles so should be an easier transition. I just can't stand pacui, it lacks user friendliness. It certainly feels like when I'm using that I'm using Arch not Manjaro.

Heck just take a screenshot of pacli vs pacui and you can see pacli made complex and mundane tasks easier. pacui makes easy tasks harder and doesn't even have options for the more complex tasks. I might as well use pacman for system update instead of a nice cli gui like pacli. For remote pc's this was a blessing. Like the category says "rant and rave" :wink:

Do you mean pacliner ?? there is no pacli in the repos or aur.

BTW - yaourt is deprecated and should not be used.

and yet both pacli and yaourt have been working no problems. I'm not saying they will continue for ever just their replacements, specifically pacui is buggy and lacks functionality so, it's odd that it's replacement doesn't even do as good a job. Surely pacli should only be removed once pacui atleast mimics it's functionality to the same stability and ease?

I hate the fact apps are rewritten with younger newer devs and then they have to reinvent the wheel, lack or standards, bug testing etc. I'm not talking specifically about pacui here but many modern apps. Heck...paint on Windows 10...what a mess of standards. :roll_eyes:

...dude.. pacui is pacli, just the newer version. It is developed by the same person.

@excalibur1234 to be exact. I guess you could complain directly to them if you like.
PacUI: Bash script providing advanced Pacman and Yay/Pikaur/Aurman/Pakku/Trizen/Pacaur functionality in a simple UI

yaourt should have been removed a long time ago. It was left in the repos long after development had stopped. It has been many years since it was really the best option. It was just what people were used to.

There are a ton of better alternatives to yaourt, two of them(mentioned above) are in the repos, even more are in AUR.

Sometimes. Not in the case of yaourt though.

This sounds like a help request rather than a Rant, so I'll close this thread off.

I think everything else has already been covered, though.

Rolling releases rolling

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