/Rant ON/ Annoying trend lately...

I agree; I do the same, as sometimes there aren't responses, or unclear, or the issue is really urgent but it's the middle of the night, etc etc. In those hours or day or two, I read a bit more and try other things, look on other forums etc, and find something that works, for more basic issues. Thankfully, issues I'd never know how to approach, no matter what I read, received very helpful responses. When I've found out myself, I want to update the thread, so other newbs can see the answer, and mark the thread solved so no more time is taken up with it, as everyone's busy.

To respond generally to the thread also, there'll be a bigger percentage of people coming to Linux who aren't great at the technical side, and/or are very busy/working, and MS just got too intrusive and impossible to continue to work with, plus Win 7 EOL will increase those coming over, many of whom wouldn't have chosen to come to Linux otherwise. I came over way before planned, as over a few months things got so bad it was impossible to have a stable system to work with; very little reading or learning beforehand.

Some will only ever get to being able to pick up whatever's necessary to maintain their system successfully, and thankfully can do this with Manjaro because Manjaro runs best. Others will be able to learn a bit more, and some may be more tech-minded and want to go all in. If donations are solely the contribution, that's just as valuable as anything else.

I'm not sure how else to make things clearer to newbies, other than have some red text above the text box, so they see what they need to include before actually posting? Maybe a couple of links also. The text could include that there won't be a response if the requested information is not included. As long as the bar isn't set too high for real beginners ... I understand they'd need the inxi information, and then whatever basics are helpful to those who answer.

I understand there's a 'trolls' section opened after posting for a while. Could there not also be a hidden section for this kind of thread?, as I often see complaints about newbies etc, and it is really off-putting. I avoid asking anything on the forum, unless critical, because of it, and just visit around the updates time usually.

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Anyone want to help this user feel free, I lost my patience with this user very quickly. The answer is straight forward most likely and I already gave him the fix to search for.

There is a study to solve the problem and everything you requested I reported to you, I still try to understand what made you lose your temper so quickly. In Arch Wiki and forum have threads with the same problem and hardware.

And then... the self solve that doesn't specify a solution just 10 different links.

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Later I update the topic.

Hmmm. Most of the time the problem looks to be happening when user don't provide necessary information or when the experienced user comes as rude to the new user! Could be a communication problem. And then people not knowing how things work in the forums.

For communication problem:

My life became so much better as an IT person when I started assuming people don't know anything. I ask for the most basic stuff around issues and yes! I know they should have done their part before coming to support! I just focus on the problem.

This works both ways not just the guys who is experienced, but also the new person.
As the person with the problem "you shouldn't wait for the support personnel to figure it out with their experience/expertise"! Spit as much as information as possible! What did you do? What were you doing when the issue started showing up? What all have you tried to fix the issue?

For sharing forum rules/process

:thinking: :thinking: I am not sure if Discourse have the option to do this, but it would be great if we could post an auto reply when the thread owner has "Forum newbie" badge. With the yes or no questions. The questions could be like..

:question: Have you tried updating your system? YES/NO
:question: Have you read Provide details when seeking assistance? Please read and provide the details that are necessary for us to help you. YES/NO
:question: Have you shared all the things you tried to solve the issue so far in your request post? YES/NO

Maybe this will help both the sides.

PS: :point_up: This is NOT directed based on any of the thread topics in discussion within this thread. Just a general observation. :slight_smile:

:peace_symbol:

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I agree with everything you said with this one exception. This is not a paid IT support job, this is a volunteer supported forum. To me the onus is on the person making the request to provide the information if they wish a resolution to their issue. If they make it too frustrating for volunteers, and volunteers have to pry information out of the user then they will likely get little assistance.

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I have taken this learning to the Linux forums and communities I have followed with too. Not just for paid support. In a company, you do the support for money and in a FOSS community, you support for passion. That is the only difference.

The only thing we can do is to reduce the friction. You cannot completely remove this issue. There is always gonna be experienced converting new users and on and on.

I now focus on trying to come up on how to reduce the friction. Especially in last 2 years. I have been extremely cautious about it. Because it is waste of your energy if you jump into a conversation on negativity. In my case, I struggled a lot to be NOT triggered. It is soooo easy for me to be triggered. I try to fight with my ego. I would like to think I am getting better. Definitely not perfect.. yet! I think for the volunteers, it could be about trying to find where can you improve your efficiency?! :slight_smile:

:peace_symbol:

As for me, my personal solution to the "I like to help people with Linux and free software because I'm a partisan for freedom but I feel I am wasting too much time and nerves on this" problem was easy:

my 5 golden rules for doing support in my free time:

  • I do not support any "dual boot with Windows"
    (this alone fixes about 70% of all problems)

  • I do not support distributions I don't actualy run myself, ran in the past for a substantial amount of time, or know nothing about. I am well aware of the fact that I don't know everything so I don't try to support what I don't know.

  • If the solution has been posted, in whichever form, and the OP fails to even try and instead dwells in stubborn disbelieve, or simply fears to open the terminal and do as he/she is told, for whatever reason, I'm out.

  • I am not responsible for your laziness (fail to RTFM when it could easy solve your "problem" is laziness, seriously) and I do not support people who just like to "switch to Linux" without the slightlest willingness to learn a thing or two. There is a solution for these people, it's called "Windows" and I have nothing to do with that.

  • stay cool, always.

ever since I stick to these rules, I am having fun.

here is my personal all time best:
(this really happened to me, a small company just around the corner, the secretary calls)

"Our office computer went off and it doesn't turn on, I can't work"
Is it plugged in?
"yes"
Did you check?
Silence...
Please check if it is plugged in, maybe someone pulled the plug.
more silence...
Hello?
"I checked. It's plugged in."
What happens when you press the button?
Silence
Hello?
"yes"
What happens when you turn the computer on? The button on the front, what happens when you press it?
Lady begins to cry: "yeah so, it was running yesterday and this morning it made a noise and there was smoke and it went black"
Smoke?!
*Lady cries desperatly: "yes, a little bit, and it went black and now it's not turning on, it is plugged in, can you help me please? I can not work, I don't know what to do, now there is a cable around my foot, I was crawling underneith the desk, it is plugged in but I got tied in the cables, please help me"
"ok, please calm down, lady? please, I'm comingm just, calm down, be there soon as I can"

...there was a coffee machine standing on top of the computer, not above, literaly ON TOP of it, right above the powersupply, happily spilling water and coffee all over the place, drowning the poor old PC and when it finaly gave up it's miserable life, the entire place went black because of the power outage... :smiley:

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I am getting to the point that I'm going to start providing a numbered question list, with a matching numbered answer form for the user to copy and fill out. If they refuse to provide the answers I think I'm just going to stop replying till they do.

I used to have a three strikes rule for having to repeat the same question, but now I barely have the patience for asking twice.

Be cooperative as a person making a help request or don't expect a lot of assistance from me. When requesting volunteer assistance, you better not go out of your way to make life difficult for the volunteer (or you will have a hard time finding volunteers).

To me either be cooperative, or find a paid support platform where the person on the other end has to put up with intransigent behavior.

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THIS!
And people, please, this is not "toxic" or "elitist", it's common sense.

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Totally feel you! The burn out is real. Take care! :slight_smile:
The burn out is going to make us grumpy you know? I was super grumpy in Fuduntu forums back in the day. We become super rude to new people when we get grumpy because to you, that is the 100th same stuff, but for that person - it is the first.

You cannot blame either side completely.
But don't reach a point where you'd quit the forums. Take things easy. Have a :beers: and make some cheers! :wink:

:peace_symbol:

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I forgot to mention my most important rule of all time:

  • I do not support anything while standing in line in the supermarket

we all know and fear the "hey, you know computers right?"
oh god no...
"my printer doest print, why?"
oh god...

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Rule 1, I love it.

You're the King in my book. :+1: :smile:

Now you ruined your kingship with that last second addendum.

there are reasons for "I don't support dualboot with Windows"
First of all, Windows will f*ck up your bootloader, again, and again, and again.
Second: we live in the era of USB livesticks and really cheap harddrives.

If I have to use Windows (it happens), I keep an install on a seperate external harddrive. Plug it in, boot up, resist the strong urge to punch my monitor, do whatever I need to do with it, power down, plug it out, boot Linux, get a coffee and some painkillers... done.
Do not dualboot! There is no reason to dualboot in 2019. We have cheap harddrives!

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Or set up another machine to put Windows, there are no reasons to be intolerant with the system of Microsoft. I'm an IT student and I focus on having what I use in college and there we use Windows. But for a long time I used Manjaro without dual boot. And I have a separate machine to put Windows, but it's 32 bits and the other one that I had 64 bits was defective and was compatible with any OS and without headaches. Because of this I needed dual boot on a 64 bit machine.
Captura%20de%20tela_2019-06-09_19-23-10

<sarcasm>

Tsk.tsk.tsk. Pathetic. Like listening to poor folks agree how dangerous and risky it is to be richer, with rampant robberies and kidnapping. It is always safer to be poorer, and happier too, they argue.

I guess we'll just have to let fools fool themselves. It is more fun watching silly men agree on nonsense than watching silly men argue about nonsense.

:crazy_face:

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Dual-boot is not much of a problem when you have one OS and one bootloader per drive. It doesn't necessarily have to be an external drive.
Most problems come from "two OS on a single drive" I would think.

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100% i duel booted with window for over 15 year never had a problem Windows on one drive Linux on another,

There may be problems with proprietary drivers and especially with older machines (there are exceptions), which work properly with Windows (more that I need it) and does not work properly on Linux. Frequently reported in groups and foruns.

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