Should we be recommending people use -Syyu instead of -Syu

Historically, I have always recommended that unless you are switching mirrors there is no reason to use -Syyu and that -Syu is sufficient.

However, since any Manjaro system with pamac installed ships with this enabled to run weekly:

pamac-mirrorlist.service
[Unit]
Description=Generate mirrorlist
Wants=network-online.target
After=network-online.target

[Service]
Type=oneshot
ExecStart=/usr/bin/pacman-mirrors -f8

it seems like using -Syu may not be a good recommendation on Manjaro because you never know when the user last had their mirrors changed. Given that, it seems like it would be more more prudent to always use -Syyu.

Am I missing something or thinking through this wrong?

2 Likes

-Syyu is what I use when not using topgrade.

It seems to me like a bad idea to refresh mirrors once a week. It's not necessary.

Most of the time, -Syyu is not necessary and just creates more traffic (and often financial cost) for the mirrors. Use -Syu whenever possible, and -Syyu only when needed, like when the mirror list changes.

3 Likes

Why? Reccomend using
sudo pacman -Syy
then...
sudo pacman -Syu
Teach people to pay attention while using the terminal :hugs:

You should never use -Sy without u. You're just asking for a partial update situation.

3 Likes

lol when did I recommend -Sy without u.

Here:

1 Like

For manjaro you might be right. There was a mod @jonathon he isn't very active now...seems he has always recommended:
sudo pacman-mirrors -f5
sudo pacman -Syyu
maybe toss a && in there. :man_shrugging:

Without searching for it, I believe that recommendation is for fresh installs and/or people having difficulty related to it.

Why cause unnecessary mirror traffic?

Why not see what @philm says?

2 Likes

But since by default, Manjaro machines are being refreshed once a week and we have no way of knowing when that happens, it seems needed.

yy is when we change branches, for a mirror it shouldn't be necessary :

  • stable rarely change, so mirrors are 95%(or more ?) up to date
  • and 90%(?) i use always the same mirror after pacman-mirrors command (pc at home)
1 Like

Um? ...
No - Syyu is for any change in mirror, including but not limited to branch.
You cannot assure that the mirror and database are the same.
(your db may be from a wonky initial mirror, you rank and set a new one but do not refresh database .. becomes a problem)

This service being enabled by default is a bad idea.
It not being remarked upon is worse.

It should either be changed/undone - or it requires an entire overhaul of our documentation and should further require a loud and public announcement to inform users.

I am happy to be proven wrong .. but this really seems like rather a problem.

3 Likes

Honestly I think it's best to take a "better safe than sorry" approach. If it doesn't hurt to refresh the mirrors then it's best to do so. Only takes a few more moments to run -Syyu.

I won't comment on whether it is good idea or not because I see the advantages and disadvantages.

I will say that I believe it has been in place for quite some time so it probably isn't a total disaster. I also think that -Syyu is the default behavior of pamac.

As for the communication, yeah, that probably should have happened.

The documentation was one of the reasons I was asking. To determine if future documents should specify yy instead of y.

@dalto
Would changing

ExecStart=/usr/bin/pacman-mirrors -f8

to

ExecStart=/usr/bin/pacman-mirrors -f8 && pacman -Syy

in pamac-mirrorlist.service

work or is it a bad idea?

well pamac does this so you dobt need to do that

1 Like

Thanks! Good to know!

:wave:t3:

I see this service as potentially problematic as it is - why was this created? Get rid of it ASAP.

2 Likes

That is even worse. That puts you in a potential partial upgrade situation as soon as you install software.

To be clear, I had nothing to do with the decision and don't know why it was made. However, it seems reasonable to speculate that the reason was to avoid situations where people were staying connected to dead mirrors forever and not getting updates.

Lastly, my intention in making this post was not to cause alarm. I believe this has already been in place for a couple of years.

1 Like

:man_facepalming:t3:

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