Some questions/thoughts about last week's "problem" stable update [2016-10-9]

I hope it won’t with 231-5+ either.

Because the freeze would be less ugly, not provoking the user to press the power button and having less other chain reactions.

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got it; many thanks!

Just saw this, thanks, will try tty again. Thanks [without the update]

Or, use paper and pencil.....very reliable.:wink:

Best regards.

Without updating [need to follow above backup advice first], I tried again going into tty then "startx". It went back to my desktop. I had had in separate panels 2 instances of Firefox, palemoon, and the firewall interface. All the panels were blank, but when I tried to start each app it said "already running". I had to reboot and start from scratch.

My computer has been running slow lately, would be fine then bog down horribly. Seems possibly related to needing to restart Firefox, not sure though. I thought to maybe wait and see if things would load after startx but got impatient after 5 minutes and rebooted.

Well - sorry. startx is basic, and would be applicable in a different case. Quick explanation -
There are usually multiple 'terminals' running ('real' ones, not the terminal emulator on your desktop) .. using ctrl+alt+f2 brings you to that terminal .. usually the x+window session you are using would reside on the f7 terminal. so you can drop using f2 .. and come straight back to your desktop session using ctrl+alt+f7.

Just checked again - indeed manjaro uses f7 :wink:

Again - do not do this for the update though.

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Great, thanks! I will look into this again later.

hmmm, little light just went on in my head :slight_smile:

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Normally typing 'startx' in terminal would be enough. But what @cscs wrote, in this case, when systemd update broke GUI (graphical user interface) you should reboot it first.

But generally, in (most?) all Linux flavors, you can quickly 'jump' out of GUI into several dos-like consoles by:

Ctrl+Alt+F2 or Ctrl+Alt+F3 or Ctrl+Alt+F4...

You can actually run several at the same time also and you return back with:


This usually gets handy when you would have problem with graphic card driver and your GUI gets messed up or stop working. No matter which Linux flavor you are using. Happened to me in Mint. By logging out of GUI you bypass the driver and then you can remove or reinstall the driver that is causing a problem.

Now that you know how to switch to tty and back, now should be easy to follow those instructions @phillm did. As @eugen-b wrote, first you update only systemd then you update everything else. (in this case, normally you will be updating whole system at once)

Do you have Virtual Box installed? (yeah I know, few more youtube videos to watch for this one) :slight_smile: but it can be helpful. You can have installed the same Manjaro in it, and since it is on the same machine, Manjaro inside Virtual Box will see the same hardware. By updating Manjaro in VB first you could get a better idea if there may be some problem.

As others have suggested before, have backup. Always, no matter what OS or Linux flavor.

And if at some point yous system gets broken, good folks here will help you. Once this does happen, you will learn more and you will get more comfortable next time.

One more thing, there are two (three) major tools/methods to learn how to fix your system:

1 - tty - you already know this one it is the first step you use if you have black screen after the boot

2 - chroot - second step, if you can't use tty, once you need to do this one or two times an you write down steps for further reminder, you will feel much more comfortable.

3 - reinstall and restore data from a backup

At some point, you could be locked out of your Manjaro system. Say after last system update, graphical driver gets broken, after the boot you see only a black screen and you cant get in with tty. If this ever happens to you, you could use any live Linux flavor, say Ubuntu or Mint and boot up your computer with live CD. The problem is, you are now in live session and you are outside of your Manjaro system. So you can't access it. For this reason, there is a command in Linux called chroot (CHange ROOT permission) and with it you can access your installed Manjaro system from outside and make needed changes to it. (usually to uninstall or reinstall something or update or reverse system update) There are few steps involved and this is called manual chroot. Like I said, every Linux flavor uses this tool.

But Manjaro has a better tool, (mhwd-chroot) that helps you avoid few manual steps and it is more like semi automatic way of fixing things. :slight_smile:

I know all this sound intimidating, I'm beginner myself (I jokingly called that 'super stable update' by waiting few extra days, which I'm religiously following) :slight_smile:

I broke my Mint twice, once by tinkering (my fault), and once after system update and both times I had to reinstall everything. Here at Manjaro I found a guide one of the members here created, (see bellow) how to save your system without reinstall, by using mhwd-chroot, have done it twice now, and I'm starting to feel much better since now I see that broken systems can generally be fixed. You will of course not know which commands to use (to fix the system) after you chroot into your system, different problems need different solutions, but every time something goes wrong and you fix it with the help of someone, write steps down. You will get better and better.

Check this excellent guide:

Here is similar thing, but described are both, manual and Manjaro way:

I suggest, one afternoon, when you have some time, just try it, follow upper steps and chroot into your computer with live boot media, just to get a feeling, write steps on a paper and when you run into your first more serious problem one day, and someone tells you to chroot into your system and follow his/her steps, you will be ready.

And if everything else fails, you can always reinstall the system and restore backed up data:

But you should be able to get out of trouble without using this, generally chroot should be enough.

Oh, also check out these videos:

---------- Added example ---------
For example, I can't install anaconda on Manjaro yet so I decided to add another Linux flavor and dual boot. If you install some other Linux flavor after Manjaro you usually need to fix the grub. And yes, after I added Mint to separate partition, Manjaro didn't boot any more. Here are steps I did & my notes by following upper tutorials: (note my partition system is older, non UEFI, no separate /boot partition, that needs two extra steps)

lsblk -f <= Find out which partition is root (corrupted manjaro) (sudo parted, lsblk -f, blkid, fdisk -l <= all should do the same)
yaourt -S mhwd-chroot <= Install mhwd-chroot tool
sudo mhwd-chroot <= Start mhwd-chroot from your Start Menu or in your terminal with one of the following two commands
sudo mhwd-chroot-shell <= Same as above? I used this one for terminal and upper one is probably for start menu

---------------- fixing the grub -------------------
pacman -S mtools os-prober <= this one installs the software applications: mtools and os-prober. mtools is a collection of tools to access MS-DOS disks from GNU/Linux and Unix without mounting them. os-prober is a utility that detects if there are any other operating systems present

------------ this is for Bios system without extra /boot partition -----------
grub-install /dev/sda <= Install grub
grub-install --recheck /dev/sda <= Recheck to ensure the that installation has completed without any errors
update-grub <= Finally, configure/update the freshly installed grub bootloader
restart the system

Last final hint, under each post, bottom right you will see three dots. Click on them and you will have an option to save/bookmark post for further reference. I hope I didn't confuse you even more :wink:

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Cool, didn't know this, thank you!
And my apology for repeating some stuff you already wrote about in my previous post. I start writing after post# 15.

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Thanks AlManja, all useful. To some extent I don't think it hurts to repeat things here in noob land, sometimes someone will explain something differently and it will click or maybe the person didn't even see it earlier. I brought my bad backup habits with me from MS, need to make some changes. The 2016-10-9 announcement/stable update thread does not seem so bad to me now that I at least know what tty is [and terminal emulator is not]. I will be looking into these suggestions, thanks.

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